Illiterate elves
May. 17th, 2005 04:04 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
gridloreStill working my way through Guns, Germs, and Steel (its a testament to how good it is that I;m taking this long. Every few pages i have to stop and digest what I've learned.)
But the last few chapters, the ones of social development and the attending technological achievements, have made me wonder something.
Why would the elves have a written language?
One of the main themes of the book is that what we laughingly call civilization is based on a couple of factors: a wide variety of domesticable foods, a similar number of large domesticatable animals, and a climate that gives a good, long growing season. Once these three things are achieved, you get advancements like cities, writing, and specialists.
Now let's consider the traditional D&D/Tolkein Elf. They live in the great forests, don't seem to clear land for farms (indeed in many stories, they hate humans for cutting down the trees for farms) and generally live hunter/gatherer existences. Why would they build cities? Or anything larger than an occasional market village? Would a race like this develop metal smithing? I say no!
Add in magic, and you have a whole different dimension. Most modern fantasy assumes that elves are inherently magical in some way. In D&D terms, cal them Sorcerers, able to cast spells without the need of ponderous tomes of lore. Another strike against literacy, since they don't need to write down their spell formula, they just do it.
So where do all those elvish swords and mithral coats come from? That lovely flowing Elvish script? Easy.
They stole/borrowed it from the Dwarves.
The dwarves, traditionally lacking easy magic, and arising in "difficult" terrain, would have quickly progressed to the chieftain/state level, with permanent settlements, writing, math, and the technologies that come with them. Dwarves would need accurate accounting for their storage houses, and iron plows turn mountain soil a bit easier. (I can imagine a dwarfish mountain hold controlling several valleys given over to intensive farming.
For the purposes of the demonstration, lets put our hunter/gatherer elves in the German forests, which, back in the day, were vast and deep. The Romans had their collective asses handed to them by the German tribes in these forests a few times. The Dwarves, on the other hand, live in Scandanavia. The Dwarves would develop iron, ocean-going vessels, writing, etc. Picture the first few encounters between these two! (Humans are still wandering around the Fertile Crescent.)
Elves will trade for or steal iron tools and weapons, and may at some point either invent their own form of writing, or just assume the dwarf script. (A situation like Sequoyah and the Cherokee alphabet is certainly possible here, but more often than not, simple imitation is the standard.) Since fantasy tradition holds elves and dwarves as enemies, at some point there had to be a massive war between the two races. Perhaps the loss of hunting grounds to dwarfish farmers was the casus belli. Whatever happened, it left the elves back where they were before; wandering the forests in search of game, with some writing but mostly an oral tradition.
In this scenario, humans have already developed all this on their own in the Fertile Crescent states, and bring it all along when they migrate into Europe. In my Fantasy Europe setting, the migration of humans forced the elves off the continent completely! England is now the home of the elves.
I find myself really attracted to this view of the elves.. again, in D&D terms, they would be Barbarians, Rangers and Sorcerers.. the concept of an Elvish Wizard is as wrong to the inhabitants of this world as the thought of a Kalihari Bushman teaching quantum physics is to us. Any "cities" the elves have would be interface settlements, place where they interact with the other races. Inside the forests, the elves would be tribal, with traditional meeting places for clan moots and festivals.
For some real fun, enforce the technological limitations of the hunter/gatherer elves. Weapons would be made from wood, stone, copper or bone. Armor would be leather and fur (except for the pieces taken in battle or in trade of course) An elvish soldier would be armed with his bow (firing bone arrowheads) and either a stone mace or bone/obsidian dagger. Human states would value them as scouts and skirmishers, and the elves would make deals to keep humans far from their lands.
It won't last, of course. The promise of easy food, and all that metal will lure more and more elves to settle down and raise sheep and wheat. But for a few centuries, you have some very cool barbarians on your borders.
Hmmm.. it occurs to me that a good historical period to model this on would be the late Roman Empire. The elvish tribes would make great Huns and Goths, and if you make the Roman state a mixed dwarf/human state...
So, what do y'all think?
But the last few chapters, the ones of social development and the attending technological achievements, have made me wonder something.
Why would the elves have a written language?
One of the main themes of the book is that what we laughingly call civilization is based on a couple of factors: a wide variety of domesticable foods, a similar number of large domesticatable animals, and a climate that gives a good, long growing season. Once these three things are achieved, you get advancements like cities, writing, and specialists.
Now let's consider the traditional D&D/Tolkein Elf. They live in the great forests, don't seem to clear land for farms (indeed in many stories, they hate humans for cutting down the trees for farms) and generally live hunter/gatherer existences. Why would they build cities? Or anything larger than an occasional market village? Would a race like this develop metal smithing? I say no!
Add in magic, and you have a whole different dimension. Most modern fantasy assumes that elves are inherently magical in some way. In D&D terms, cal them Sorcerers, able to cast spells without the need of ponderous tomes of lore. Another strike against literacy, since they don't need to write down their spell formula, they just do it.
So where do all those elvish swords and mithral coats come from? That lovely flowing Elvish script? Easy.
They stole/borrowed it from the Dwarves.
The dwarves, traditionally lacking easy magic, and arising in "difficult" terrain, would have quickly progressed to the chieftain/state level, with permanent settlements, writing, math, and the technologies that come with them. Dwarves would need accurate accounting for their storage houses, and iron plows turn mountain soil a bit easier. (I can imagine a dwarfish mountain hold controlling several valleys given over to intensive farming.
For the purposes of the demonstration, lets put our hunter/gatherer elves in the German forests, which, back in the day, were vast and deep. The Romans had their collective asses handed to them by the German tribes in these forests a few times. The Dwarves, on the other hand, live in Scandanavia. The Dwarves would develop iron, ocean-going vessels, writing, etc. Picture the first few encounters between these two! (Humans are still wandering around the Fertile Crescent.)
Elves will trade for or steal iron tools and weapons, and may at some point either invent their own form of writing, or just assume the dwarf script. (A situation like Sequoyah and the Cherokee alphabet is certainly possible here, but more often than not, simple imitation is the standard.) Since fantasy tradition holds elves and dwarves as enemies, at some point there had to be a massive war between the two races. Perhaps the loss of hunting grounds to dwarfish farmers was the casus belli. Whatever happened, it left the elves back where they were before; wandering the forests in search of game, with some writing but mostly an oral tradition.
In this scenario, humans have already developed all this on their own in the Fertile Crescent states, and bring it all along when they migrate into Europe. In my Fantasy Europe setting, the migration of humans forced the elves off the continent completely! England is now the home of the elves.
I find myself really attracted to this view of the elves.. again, in D&D terms, they would be Barbarians, Rangers and Sorcerers.. the concept of an Elvish Wizard is as wrong to the inhabitants of this world as the thought of a Kalihari Bushman teaching quantum physics is to us. Any "cities" the elves have would be interface settlements, place where they interact with the other races. Inside the forests, the elves would be tribal, with traditional meeting places for clan moots and festivals.
For some real fun, enforce the technological limitations of the hunter/gatherer elves. Weapons would be made from wood, stone, copper or bone. Armor would be leather and fur (except for the pieces taken in battle or in trade of course) An elvish soldier would be armed with his bow (firing bone arrowheads) and either a stone mace or bone/obsidian dagger. Human states would value them as scouts and skirmishers, and the elves would make deals to keep humans far from their lands.
It won't last, of course. The promise of easy food, and all that metal will lure more and more elves to settle down and raise sheep and wheat. But for a few centuries, you have some very cool barbarians on your borders.
Hmmm.. it occurs to me that a good historical period to model this on would be the late Roman Empire. The elvish tribes would make great Huns and Goths, and if you make the Roman state a mixed dwarf/human state...
So, what do y'all think?
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no subject
Date: 17 May 2005 23:18 (UTC)Of course, one can also posit that the Elvish script is in fact both needed for their magic and an art form; it's less script than runes, a gift of the Vanir, and reading or writing it restores lost magic points. Of course, being a sacred script, it might be considered too holy for use in less exalted pursuits. So you could end up with an Elf having fits about writing down something mundane -- a request for supplies, say -- in Elvish.
I'm glad you're liking GG&S, by the way. I still need to read Collapse, the "sequel".
Oh, and it drove me nuts that, in the LotR movies, you never saw cropland outside the Shire. The Pellenor Fields were *fields*, not empty grassland. Every time they showed a long shot of Minas Tirith, I found myself wondering if they all lived on take-out Chinese ordered from Minas Morgul.
no subject
Date: 17 May 2005 23:31 (UTC)no subject
Date: 17 May 2005 23:32 (UTC)Dear gods, you certainly did join the right family, didn't you?
Again, *ow*.
no subject
Date: 17 May 2005 23:39 (UTC)no subject
Date: 17 May 2005 23:40 (UTC)"Yeah, I have a large pizza for Denethor son of Ecthelion, Lord of Gondor, Steward of the High King."
no subject
Date: 17 May 2005 23:35 (UTC)no subject
Date: 17 May 2005 23:43 (UTC)addictplayer, we could throw in dragon artifacts. Mail made from dragon scales, weapons carved from dragon bone, bows made from bone and strung with sinew.I am so writing this up in detail.
no subject
Date: 18 May 2005 00:10 (UTC)If you want someone who's an anthro/soc major, and almost finished the zoo/bio degree, and loves this kinda stuff! -to look over your shoulder while you write, I'd be delighted to help in any way I could? ;)
I'm doing the opposite
Date: 18 May 2005 14:02 (UTC)no subject
Date: 18 May 2005 22:37 (UTC)The longevity of the Elvish race and the resulting low birth rate.
The investment in children would be very high and means that would help compensate for the longer period of time from birth to adulthood would be useful.
Small, portable technological items that would be either easy to make with improvised or extremely portable means or portable items traded for from other races or adapted from other's technology might also be possible, even more likely at a higher degree of fine craftmanship or decoration.
(Somewhat like the predecessors of the Eskimo, the Dorset Culture, were reknowned by the Eskimo for the beauty and refinement of their more primitive technology...)
Also, writing, though unlikely to be initiated by the Elves, may be adopted and is likely to be adapted to the Elves' use from Dwarvish because, once again, the longer lifespan and the advantages of communication for protecting young. Additionally, writing has historically developed as a means of enforcing or reinforcing a stratified society as a means of control or controlling information. Writing at the more egalitarian band/tribe level would be more of a peer-to-peer communication than the historical human development pattern. With the more egalitarian situation combined with the the advantages toward survival/procreation, literacy in long lived elves might become more likely after exposure than literacy in a more typical human society.