An interesting argument
Sep. 25th, 2003 09:40 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
gridloreNOTE: This comes from alt.atheism, and is likely to be insulting if you are a devout Christian and don't like having your faith questioned.
Original Sin, the fall of mankind. This story is central to the entire Judeo-Chrsitian belief system. The basic story of Eve, the fruit, and the serpent is well known, but the question here is who in this story told the truth? Let's see.
First, God warned Adam about the Tree of Knowledge:
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
One interesting thing in Genesis 2 is that Eve wasn't created until after this warning. Then the serpent enters the scene:
3:1
Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
3:2
And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3:3
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
OK, we have two claims here: God says, "if you even touch the fruit, you die." The serpent says "Wrong, eat it, and you shall know Good and Evil, and become like the "gods" (Interesting plural usage there.)
3:6
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
3:7
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
So, after eating, they weren't struck dead.. but instead did have their eyes opened! Hell, they seemed to notice that they were naked for the first time (which implies that God was letting them commit a wrong.)
So, what do we have? God say that if they so much touch the fruit, they will die. Serpent says no, you will know good and evil, and be like the gods. Who was telling the truth here?
It's simple. The serpent. Far from dropping dead, Adam lived 930 years (Gen 5:5) God's threats were a lie. Indeed, after dealing with the fact that Adam and Eve had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge, he worries about the other Tree..
3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
3:23
Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Still wonder about those plurals..
The lesson? When given the choice between a talking snake, and a God, trust the snake. He has a better track record.
Original Sin, the fall of mankind. This story is central to the entire Judeo-Chrsitian belief system. The basic story of Eve, the fruit, and the serpent is well known, but the question here is who in this story told the truth? Let's see.
First, God warned Adam about the Tree of Knowledge:
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
One interesting thing in Genesis 2 is that Eve wasn't created until after this warning. Then the serpent enters the scene:
3:1
Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
3:2
And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3:3
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
OK, we have two claims here: God says, "if you even touch the fruit, you die." The serpent says "Wrong, eat it, and you shall know Good and Evil, and become like the "gods" (Interesting plural usage there.)
3:6
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
3:7
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
So, after eating, they weren't struck dead.. but instead did have their eyes opened! Hell, they seemed to notice that they were naked for the first time (which implies that God was letting them commit a wrong.)
So, what do we have? God say that if they so much touch the fruit, they will die. Serpent says no, you will know good and evil, and be like the gods. Who was telling the truth here?
It's simple. The serpent. Far from dropping dead, Adam lived 930 years (Gen 5:5) God's threats were a lie. Indeed, after dealing with the fact that Adam and Eve had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge, he worries about the other Tree..
3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
3:23
Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Still wonder about those plurals..
The lesson? When given the choice between a talking snake, and a God, trust the snake. He has a better track record.
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no subject
Date: 25 Sep 2003 10:02 (UTC)no subject
Date: 25 Sep 2003 10:18 (UTC)How long are God's days, exactly?
no subject
Date: 25 Sep 2003 10:35 (UTC)Or both, depending on how you look at things. :-)
Plurals
Date: 25 Sep 2003 10:52 (UTC)This refers to a group of two -- Adam and Eve, who would be as two gods for knowing good and evil.
"the man is become as one of us"
My Kabbalah is a bit rusty, but didn't angels pre-date humans? Angels would have known good and evil.
Either way, the outcome wasn't good.
Date: 25 Sep 2003 10:56 (UTC)For one, I don't think the Genesis account is a word-by-word, second-by-second account. I think time is something that isn't explained or accounted for by "God's" time.
For one, I don't think Adam (or is he a composite of mankind?) would have kept from his lady love Eve the "big secret" of not eating from one particular tree. For another, how big exactly is this Garden of Eden? Where did they live? Close by the tree of good and evil or in a far corner of the garden and never passing by this tree at all.
Talking snakes? I don't think so. Snakes another composite to the evil things of the world.
Clothes? Naked? If it were just the two of them - which I sincerely doubt - they just didn't have the cultural taboo against nudity that prevails today.
Thank you for posting a thought provoking subject.
Susan