![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Entry tags:
"Raise Dead," religion, and the afterlife.
In my post on Dwarf Slayers I make the point that casting Raise Dead on a deceased Slayer would be a Bad Thing™. ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
seawasp argued that it should be perfectly normal; you've cleansed your honor, attoned for your sin, now you get to enjoy life. I'd like to address that.
The general rule in Western religious teaching is that worshipers of a particular faith will be rewarded with an eternal existence in the afterlife. Whether its Heaven or Valhalla, the teachings are clear: Obey the rules set down in the Holy Texts and follow the teachings of the priests, and when you die, you get to live forever basking in the glory of God (or whatever that religion promises.) Some afterlives aren't eternal. The warriors boozing it up in Valhalla know that when Rangarok comes that are fated to fight and lose to the giants. But until then, they'll battle by day and party all night.
This seems to be the model used by most FRPG cosmologies, especially D&D with its inner and outer planes. You die, and your soul travels to the appropriate Outer Plane for an eternity of pleasure/punishment/F-Troop reruns. Which brings up back to our dead Dwarf Slayer. .
Morvin was a Leader of an Axe-Hundred in the unending battles against the goblins of the Redgold Mines. Many of the troops in his Hundred were kin, including his own younger brother. At one battle, Morvin was cut off, and in a moment of panic, fled. Leaderless, his hundred was slaughtered to the last dwarf. For his cowardice and failure, his clan cast him out. Morvin, insane with grief and shame, takes the path of the Slayer.. Years pass. Morvin failed to find the release of death he sought. He traveled with a group of adventurers in search of worthy foes. They understood that if Morvin claimed a foe, it had to be single combat for him. His legend, and the deadliness of his magical axe Blutlied grew. Until the party learned that the dragon Καρδιά δαιμόνων was actually possessed by a demon. They traveled to the Demonic dragon's mountain, and while the rest of the party dealth with the infernal drake's servitors and guards, Morvin screamed and lept at the dragon. The battle was epic, and for Morvin, his last. The combined power of an adult dragon back by the foul magics of a creature from the pits of the Abyss were too much, and Morvin died, swinging his axe to the last, dying with a curse for his enemy on his lips.
While his companions finished off the weakened dragon, Morvin's soul traveled across the Astral Plane to the Great Mountain. There, the Gates of Iron are open, and waiting to greet him is his brother. Morvin is welcomed into his clan's hall by generations of his ancestors, and told that he has removed the stain on his and the clan's honor. He may stay in the hall for as long as he wishes, fighting and feasting, or take one of several other paths available in the afterlife. Then, suddenly, Morvin is pulled back to the Prime Material Plane. He's been raised from the dead. He will be pissed. Mainly because he spent most of his life trying to die! Also it may well be that the rules for Slayers specifically state that if you get raised you are even more shamed than before. Morvin had achieved his ultimate goal. Now he's right back where he started.
Then there are the Death Cults. Not all death religions are going to be evil, I'm thinking specifically of the Humakt cult from RuneQuest. How are they going to feel about raising the dead? Undead? I can easily see a case where a church worshiping death might have temple assassins that exist solely to kill those who mock death by being raised! Finally, you have the feelings of the dead person. I don't know about the rest of you, but if were to drop dead this minute and find myself in some version of paradise (for me? a library containing every written work every created, and the ability to read them all...) I wouldn't want to come back! Since Raise Dead is generally an expensive ritual to perform (and costs even more to get a temple to do for you) you better make sure that the person being raised wants to come back! Generally, unless there was some great work left undone, some terrible wrong that needed to be righted, most people are going to opt to stay in the afterlife. Of course, those who were judged and found wanting will probably jump at the chance to get a new start in life...
Just some thoughts on the subject. I'd love to hear what other people's take on this is.
seawasp argued that it should be perfectly normal; you've cleansed your honor, attoned for your sin, now you get to enjoy life. I'd like to address that.The general rule in Western religious teaching is that worshipers of a particular faith will be rewarded with an eternal existence in the afterlife. Whether its Heaven or Valhalla, the teachings are clear: Obey the rules set down in the Holy Texts and follow the teachings of the priests, and when you die, you get to live forever basking in the glory of God (or whatever that religion promises.) Some afterlives aren't eternal. The warriors boozing it up in Valhalla know that when Rangarok comes that are fated to fight and lose to the giants. But until then, they'll battle by day and party all night.
This seems to be the model used by most FRPG cosmologies, especially D&D with its inner and outer planes. You die, and your soul travels to the appropriate Outer Plane for an eternity of pleasure/punishment/F-Troop reruns. Which brings up back to our dead Dwarf Slayer. .
Morvin was a Leader of an Axe-Hundred in the unending battles against the goblins of the Redgold Mines. Many of the troops in his Hundred were kin, including his own younger brother. At one battle, Morvin was cut off, and in a moment of panic, fled. Leaderless, his hundred was slaughtered to the last dwarf. For his cowardice and failure, his clan cast him out. Morvin, insane with grief and shame, takes the path of the Slayer.. Years pass. Morvin failed to find the release of death he sought. He traveled with a group of adventurers in search of worthy foes. They understood that if Morvin claimed a foe, it had to be single combat for him. His legend, and the deadliness of his magical axe Blutlied grew. Until the party learned that the dragon Καρδιά δαιμόνων was actually possessed by a demon. They traveled to the Demonic dragon's mountain, and while the rest of the party dealth with the infernal drake's servitors and guards, Morvin screamed and lept at the dragon. The battle was epic, and for Morvin, his last. The combined power of an adult dragon back by the foul magics of a creature from the pits of the Abyss were too much, and Morvin died, swinging his axe to the last, dying with a curse for his enemy on his lips.
While his companions finished off the weakened dragon, Morvin's soul traveled across the Astral Plane to the Great Mountain. There, the Gates of Iron are open, and waiting to greet him is his brother. Morvin is welcomed into his clan's hall by generations of his ancestors, and told that he has removed the stain on his and the clan's honor. He may stay in the hall for as long as he wishes, fighting and feasting, or take one of several other paths available in the afterlife. Then, suddenly, Morvin is pulled back to the Prime Material Plane. He's been raised from the dead. He will be pissed. Mainly because he spent most of his life trying to die! Also it may well be that the rules for Slayers specifically state that if you get raised you are even more shamed than before. Morvin had achieved his ultimate goal. Now he's right back where he started.
Then there are the Death Cults. Not all death religions are going to be evil, I'm thinking specifically of the Humakt cult from RuneQuest. How are they going to feel about raising the dead? Undead? I can easily see a case where a church worshiping death might have temple assassins that exist solely to kill those who mock death by being raised! Finally, you have the feelings of the dead person. I don't know about the rest of you, but if were to drop dead this minute and find myself in some version of paradise (for me? a library containing every written work every created, and the ability to read them all...) I wouldn't want to come back! Since Raise Dead is generally an expensive ritual to perform (and costs even more to get a temple to do for you) you better make sure that the person being raised wants to come back! Generally, unless there was some great work left undone, some terrible wrong that needed to be righted, most people are going to opt to stay in the afterlife. Of course, those who were judged and found wanting will probably jump at the chance to get a new start in life...
Just some thoughts on the subject. I'd love to hear what other people's take on this is.
no subject
no subject
no subject
However, she also was drowned and revived in the Season 1 finale, with no particular lingering effect. This gives some existential wiggle room: immediate revivification by repairing the body before the spirit has gone on is relatively consequence free, but undoing transmigration and so forth is dangerous juju.