gridlore: Doug looking off camera with a grin (Baseball - Bonds swing)
Douglas Berry ([personal profile] gridlore) wrote2007-08-07 10:34 pm
Entry tags:
kshandra: Satellite photo of San Francisco Bay; the Marin Headlands and Oakland are also visible (San Francisco)

Re: " * "

[personal profile] kshandra 2007-08-08 06:26 am (UTC)(link)
Red, I suspect I'm going to be far more polite about this than Doug might.

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

The moment Barry fails a drug test, you can tell me you told me so, and I'll stand there and take it. Until then, all those asterisks look like sour grapes to me.

Re: " * "

[identity profile] autographedcat.livejournal.com 2007-08-08 12:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Agreed. It's impressive to me regardless, and folks who think it isn't can stick it up their *. :)

(And I'm neither a Giants fan nor a Bonds fan, for the record.)

Don't know if you guys saw this on ESPN.com. Someone elsewhere on LJ linked to it, and it raised some interesting
points:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/070806

Re: " * "

[identity profile] docwebster.livejournal.com 2007-08-08 03:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Damn well told. For me, the issue was decided when Hank Aaron sent in the video congratulations. When one of the most erudite and classy individuals to ever play the game is big enough to pass the torch like that - yeah, that's made of win.
kshandra: Small owl with its head turned 90 degrees from vertical. Text: "Wait...what?" (...what?)

Re: " * "

[personal profile] kshandra 2007-08-08 06:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not entirely certain I agree with classy, tbh. As I noted elsewhere, while I can completely understand not wanting to traipse around the country at the pace of a pro ball team at his age, he was less than tactful in the way he originally discussed the issue. The fact that he did record the video surprised me, in the light of those previous remarks, but it was a very pleasant surprise.

Re: " * "

[identity profile] kevin-standlee.livejournal.com 2007-08-08 05:16 pm (UTC)(link)
As I said in my own LJ, unless people want to try erasing the entire last twenty years from the baseball records -- all of them, not just those set by Bonds -- bleating about individuals' drug usage is pointless. Even if you assume for the sake of argument that Bonds was enhanced in some way (it's possible, and circumstantial evidence is there, but it's not proven), he was playing against other people (including pitchers) who were almost certainly also enhanced. That's about as level as the playing field is going to get. I don't condone use of performance-enhancing drugs, but I also don't see how you can unbake a cake, and that's what people wanting to flag Bonds' records or ignore them entirely are trying to do.

But of course, people were griping and complaining about Aaron breaking Ruth's record -- doubtless they included the fact that the seasons were longer, just like the metaphorical asterisk on Roger Maris' record. I don't expect Bonds' new record to last forever (unlike DiMaggio's consecutive-game hitting streak, which seems insurmountable to me), and I expect that there will be complaints when someone passes Bonds, too.
kshandra: Porcelain dragon figurine stares at the camera, arms crossed and eyebrow raised (HighlySkeptical)

Re: " * "

[personal profile] kshandra 2007-08-08 06:18 pm (UTC)(link)
...and as [livejournal.com profile] gridlore reminded me this morning before I left for work, Ruth should get an asterisk because all of his HRs were logged in the days before the ground-rule double. Nobody knows how many of his "homers" actually bounced over the wall, because nobody recorded those stats, because it wasn't relevant to the game as it was played in those days.

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[identity profile] netquiddler.livejournal.com 2007-08-08 07:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Ruth might also get an asterisk for not being able to play against the best pitchers of all races, as when he played, racial integration had not happened yet.

Re: " * "

[identity profile] hartt-tommel.livejournal.com 2007-08-08 06:28 pm (UTC)(link)
That standard only applies in a court of law.

If it's found out to be true, I suggest that they forget about the asterisk and simply just strike his name from record book and making him persona non grata in the baseball world.

-Tom

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[identity profile] gridlore.livejournal.com 2007-08-08 07:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Pete Rose is still in the record books.

Re: " * "

[identity profile] hartt-tommel.livejournal.com 2007-08-08 07:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Don't get me started about Charlie Hustle... ;-p

-Tom
kshandra: Porcelain dragon figurine stares at the camera, arms crossed and eyebrow raised (HighlySkeptical)

Re: " * "

[personal profile] kshandra 2007-08-08 08:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Touché.